MatriTalks 41
          TERESA
          OF AVILA
          Questions
          & Answers 
          with 
          Han Marie Stiekema Sermes
          The story of his encounter with her
          Q. Your connection to Teresa of Avila has
          highly surprised me. I thought she represented a kind of very loyal discipleship to the
          church. How did her and your world meet?
          A. Yes, it is a great surprise
          to me too. I could never imagine, that she would become so important to me.
          Q. So, how did it happen?
          A. First of all through the
          discovery, that there is only One World, which we both share. Her descriptions of the Way
          is one big recognition, being the cause of great gratitude and joy.
          Q. (Silence). Well, there must be also another
          reason. Why feeling a relationship with her in particular? There are countless other
          "colleagues" of yours with similar Experiences, but without this intimate
          contact.
          A. That's right. Let's start
          with the beginning, then. Meeting people on the spiritual Path is often reflecting the
          special stage you are in yourself. Thus, in the beginning, my favorites - apart from
          Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh, through whom I received Transmission ("despite himself")
          - were the Buddha and some of his excellent disciples. That was, because I was in the
          stage of Full Awakening, aspects of which I recognized in reports, written by people from
          that tradition.
          Q. Thus, it all changed, as you
          proceeded?
          A. Then, in my "Dark Night
          of the Soul" I was seeking support from those, who understood the other steps of the
          Spiritual Path. I wanted to know more about the sequence of those steps and the logic
          behind. So, it happened, that I came across the book "Mysticism" of Evelyn
          Underhill. Through this book I discovered - for the first time - the value of Christian
          Mysticism. Especially, the place of suffering became a lot more clear to me. As said
          before, the strength of Buddhism is the Path toward Enlightenment. The function of
          suffering is greatly underdeveloped though. So, I was really grateful to be able to read
          some important Mystics from "my own tradition". My favorites were a.o. Hadewych,
          Beatrijs of Nazareth, Eckhart, Brothers and Sisters of the Free Spirit, Ruusbroec, Suso,
          Catharina of Siena, Giordano Bruno and Juan de la Cruz.
          Q. No Teresa yet?
          A. No, I now know the reason.
          It is, that I wasn't ready for her at that time. "Shame on me", for I thought,
          that she would be much "inferior" to the others I had read.
          Q. Was there a turning point?
          A. Yes, indeed. After I had
          "discovered" the Great Mother as the Ultimate Reality, suddenly, there was need
          for developing a relationship. This had not occurred before, for "in the Enlightened
          State" there is not another Realm "higher" than You...An "I and
          Thou" relationship I considered - and many with me - as to be part of a
          "lower" level. It belonged to those, who were still ignorant, who hadn't
          discovered yet, that ultimately you are the Divine yourSelf.
          Q. So, you had to get used to this new idea.
          A. Absolutely. I remember a
          kind of desperation, not knowing how to establish relationship with "the
          Mother". I even went to a Christian bookstore to find a book about "how to
          pray". TV broadcasts about Christian Services suddenly draw my attention. Rather than
          "being backward", I suddenly considered these people "far ahead of
          me". I realized, that "simply surrendering" to the Ultimate, as they did,
          was something I had great difficulties with. 
          Q. Something I don't understand. On the one
          hand, you lived a very spiritual life, while on the other having no contact with the
          Divine. How can that be?
          A. Through the Great
          Realizations I know, that "I Am That". It is not a common experience, one that
          comes and goes. Dissolving into the Ultimate is equal to receiving a New Identity. You
          have become reborn. From that moment on, you know You Are Oneness. Everything is part of
          You, rather than you being part of something else. This remains your Self-insight until
          you die. In fact, that happens to most of "my kind" (laughter). However, it is
          because of the Grace of the Mother, that She granted me a Higher Insight, namely, that the
          Divine and therefore Self-realization is not the Ultimate.
          Q. Which brought you back to zero, rather
          climbing further up the mountain.
          A. I had reached the top
          already for a long time. Now, the Mother invited me to descend to Her Valley. The former
          can be realized, while the latter cannot. How can you realize a Vacuum, Emptiness beyond
          Emptiness? You can only surrender to It, worship It, take refuge in It. Hence, my whole
          situation was turned upside down.  
          Q. So then it was, that you "met"
          Teresa of Avila.
          A. That's right. It was really
          a shock and this for many reasons. First of all, the recognition. This was (is) so
          perfect, that actually I could only feel: "She is me and I am her".  This
          was not only true with regard to "sharing the Essence", having equal
          Experiences, but to all kinds of biographical details as well. Very often I was so moved,
          that I couldn't stop my tears. Simultaneously, I realized her superiority, especially in
          those areas, in which I was (am) still a beginner. So "I asked her", if she
          wanted to become my sister, teacher and soulmate.*
          * Which doesn't mean, that I
          "agree with her" on all issues. For instance, her rather fanatic rejection of
          "the world", I consider to be unfruitful. Her past - in which "she loved
          the world too much" - and her subsequent concern, that "the world" may
          distract her from being focused on God, plays a major role here.  
          Q. Did she answer you?
          A. Until this very day I have
          not yet received a refusal (laughter).
          Q. So, what were the areas, in which she became
          your teacher?
          A. First of all, there was this
          last part of the "Dark Night of the Soul". Although it had come to a closure,
          there were still some very small gaps of understanding about the function of suffering.
          Teresa was very outspoken about this. In moments of intense suffering, she asked her Lord
          to grant her more. Now, I must confess, that initially resistance came up. "Typical
          Christian masochism" I thought. In the context of the Mystical Path though, the
          meaning is different. Through letting your suffering go the bottom of your soul, your
          longing for the Ultimate will grow accordingly. It is out of Love for her Lord, that she
          wanted it all. 
          Q. Quite amazing. But isn't not her humbleness
          something - for which they say she was renowned - that is possibly not so recognizable to
          modern man, not even to you?
          A. Teresa was partly humble,
          because of the pride she used to have. This is the genuine part. The other part was
          strategy. Actually, she was incredibly ambitious to get her message through. However, both
          as a woman of 16th century Spain, as well as a potential candidate for being convicted as
          a heretic by the Inquisition, she exaggerated her humility all the time. 
          Q. Back to your learning process. What exactly
          was she able to teach you, something others apparently couldn't?
          A. It is her unconditional
          surrender to her Lord, which totally "fascinates" me. Why? Because it is
          something, that is most difficult to me. So difficult, that I know, that this will be the
          issue until the end of my life. Therefore, I am absolutely certain, that Teresa will never
          "quit". 
          Q. What about the "practical part" of
          your relationship with her.      
          A. Yes, that has been another
          great surprise. Again, from my background I considered meditation the ultimate technique.
          Through it, you realize your True Self, which is the most crucial step on the spiritual
          Path. Meditation helps you to make the leap from ignorance - to be identified with a
          fictitious idea of yourself - to awareness e.g. liberation. Again, it was the last thing I
          expected, that "beyond" meditation something could be hidden, that was more
          valuable, certainly not "prayer". Reading Teresa, my eyes were definitively
          opened. She masterly describes her method of "Inner Prayer". It consists of
          first becoming aware of yourself, subsequently followed by becoming aware of the Ultimate
          as the all-inclusive Divine. It exceeded the meditation, for it not only focused on
          yourself, but also on the Ultimate. This was exactly where I had been looking for.
          Q. Please, go on.
          A. Now, through having
          established this relationship, words spontaneously start bubbling up. The astonishing
          thing is, that she again and again emphasizes, that everything - self-awareness, awareness
          of the Divine and awareness of your prayer - should take place in the HereNow....It is a
          cosmic experience, far exceeding "personal awareness". But that wasn't all. In
          Zen - which used to be my meditation background - it goes, that emotions shouldn't be paid
          attention to. That is indeed the best attitude with regard to achieving clarity of mind,
          at least up to a certain intensity (of your emotions). After that "active
          acceptance" has to be added to it. Trying to establish relationship with the Mother -
          "something", that cannot be realized, only surrendered to - was another thing
          though. In this case, emotions like "longing", "trusting",
          "pleading", "praising" and "surrendering" were crucial.
          Teresa represents this all in a absolutely unique way. It gave me a deep sigh. I had found
          a masterly friend.
          Q. You are a master yourself. How does it feel
          for you to have found one?
          A. My life is blessed, in such
          an overwhelming way, that I only can hope, that I may be fruitful, to the benefit of
          others.
          Q. Teresa worshipped "her
          Christian Lord", whom she often calls "His Majesty". You know from your
          experience, that "God" is not the Ultimate. How can Teresa be a teacher to you?
          A. It is the attitude of
          unconditional surrender, that is decisive. 
          Q. So doesn't it matter, whom
          you are worshipping: God or the Mother?
          A. Remember: God is the Light
          Body of the Mother. Hence, through the Mother you respect every tradition. And when I
          become tired of reading "His Majesty", I simply replace it by "the
          Mother" (big laughter).  
          Be receptive and the Mother
          will come and give you "everything you need"
          Praise the Mother!
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